Tuesday, November 01, 2005

I practically grew up on ARR. Well ,close to it anyways. You have to admit that he was more than just a breathe of fresh air. He revolutionized the whole Tamil film music industry and then went on to do the same with Bollywood. While we're discussing this....why would they call it Bollywood? For that matter why is there a Kollywood or a Tollywood?? That is just so asinine. Be original! It amazes me how they change the names of cities in India because they were anglicized, yet the name of our film industries are an obvious lift off tinsel town aka Hollywood?

Why is it so hard for Indians as a rule to be original? I think I mentioned this in my last post too. This applies most directly to Indian film music. There are plenty of copycat music directors in India. The first person whose name leaps into my mind when I think the word copycat is Anu Malik. Man, that guy lifts tunes like nobody's business. It amazes me that he still has offers to make music for movies. Especially when this is the internet age where information is never hard to find. As I've mentioned before it was only because of Patti that I listened to all of ARR's music and realised the absolute genius that is this man. I've always been a big RD fan. Loved his music. My all time fav was 'Chura Liya'. I did know that he was a bit of a copycat from the 'Hum Kisi Se Kum Nahin' where he ripped off ABBA with his 'Mil gaya..' But I figured that he was still pretty awesome. Little did I know that even my fav was a copy. All of his and other music directors' copycat info I found on
http://www.itwofs.com/itwofs.html I was surprised to see that Anu Mallik only had 55 copies. More surprising was that RD wasn't far behind at 37. I mean not all of them were total rip offs, there were a few which were inspired, not outright copies.

The Webmaster of the site, a Mr. Karthik (Thx for enlightening me suh!) has also entered the following text on the main page in case you jump to your fav MD's copy page and wonder what the
TC is next to most of the songs is.

Another key aspect is the difference between getting inspired to create the tune itself and using bass/ beats/ rythm loops from foreign sources. Those songs listed which have their basic tunes inspired would have a prominent TC mark adjacent to them to denote a tune copy. Those without the TC mark signify use of rythm loops, beats/ bass and so on. One cannot judge the intentions of the composer in both cases but yes, when a composer copies a tune, its generally assumed that his imagination is dry! This, notwithstanding the kind of excuses they give - "the producer came to me with the CD and said use this" and so on.

Look up ARR's page. None of his songs have a TC next to any of the songs. He might have been inspired by the original, mostly only the background beats, but his tunes are always original. I remember telling another person who proclaimed that RD was a better MD than ARR and when I pointed out the fact that he(RD) had lifted a total of 37 songs, he(my friend, also part of the Patti ilk) actually told me that they were just 37 right? What's the big deal? I was astounded at this. How can they be so blind?? How can they not see and realise that ARR is one of the very best. Originality and excellence in one person. Talking about originality, I checked out his imdb page. He has some 25 odd projects that he's working on or will be released by the end of 2006. I don't know how original his work would be if he had so many projects going at the very same time. I hope he keeps his mind-blowing original music goin.

There was Ismail Darbar running ARR down, saying he's way more talented than ARR. Believe me, before I read this interview, I had no clue who this guy was. The interview came out on rediff.com (http://in.rediff.com/movies/2005/mar/08minter1.htm). Check this one out.

Ai ajnabee [Deewangi (2002)]
Composer: Ismail Darbar
Lifted from Portugese 'Fado' singer, Dulce Pontes' song, 'Cancao do mar'!
Listen to Ai Ajnabee Cancao Do Mar
Two interesting things to note here....'Cancao do mar' was part of the soundtrack of 'Primal fear' from whose plot Deewangi has been inspired. And second, 'cancao do mar' has already been lifted as-is in Tamil, for the movie Kushi, with music by Deva! This is probably Ismail Darbar's first blatant lift...I can almost see Director Anees Bazmee and Producer Nitin Manmohan compelling Ismail to lift this number...but you never know...!Also listen to the Tamil version Oh Vennila [Kushi]

He's come out with music for what.. 7 movies? Very original. Keep it up Darbar. He insists that Hum Dil De Chuke Sanam was better than Taal and Devdas was better than Saathiya. HA! His infamous Nimbuda Nimbuda was also a lift. Makes me wanna break out in one of those over exaggerated villain laughs.

Nimbuda Nimbuda [Hum Dil De Chuke Sanam (1999)]
Composer: Ismail Darbar
Inspired by Ghazni Khan Manganiyar's Rajasthani Folk song, 'Nimbuda'
Listen to Nimbuda [Hum Dil De Chuke Sanam] Nimbuda [Original]
If you'd like to listen to the full version of the folk song, click here (check out 'Nimbuda Nimbuda'!) Take a look at these 2 (out of many other sites) sites that talk of this song being a lift from a Rajasthani Manganiyar folk song!Diverse Strains Sunday Tribune I completely agree with Shuba Mudgal (who has penned the write-up in Diverse Strains) when she asks, "If we can listen to a folk song in a blockbuster movie, why can we not give an occasional patient hearing to the original?" Ismail Darbar had a wonderful chance to handle this in the right way, but I wonder why he messed it up and ended with a 'plagiarist' tag - that too in his much-celebrated debut. All he had to do was to add a note of credit to the original composer of the song, Rajasthani folk singer Ghazni Khan Manganiyar, so that people can differentiate between the original and the Bollywood version - when you listen to the two you'd understand the kind of work that Ismail has put in, in his version and made a simple, 'otherwise-restricted-to-a-few-discerning-listeners' track into an ultra-catchy dance number! Its a pity that decided to pass it as his original composition.

Plagiarism at its best. Oh wait, there's more! (buahahahahaha)

Chaand chupa [Hum dil de chuke sanam]
Composer: Ismail Darbar
Inspired by the Love story theme by Francis Lai
Listen to Francis Lai's theme from Love Story Chaand chupa

Keeps getting better doesn't it? I mean, it's just so stupid to call attention to yourself like this. Induce the ire of all ARR's fans so they go digging the dirt on ya. Stupid stupid stupid! Anyone else wanna get shot down? I'm on a roll! This guy is so full of a whole lot of hooey.

All text in pink finds its source in the http://www.itwofs.com/itwofs.html site.


Aravind said...

I find it so irritating when such people with no miagination or creativity get so much fame... In my campus radio at IIMB, I do a program called Copy Cats where I expose all these lifts- I have collected the original and the copied songs and play them back to back !! And most of the people are surprised to know that most of their fav songs were copied :))

Aakarsh said...

Mere Lifting of some tunes doesnt degrade the genius of any composer. RDB might have lifted 38tunes but still, we cannot forget that he is the pioneer of modern music in indian films.He is the person who changed the face of indian music for the 1st time and paved the way for others, subsequently.i dont think we can take away that credit from him. and regarding Comparision, we cannot compare RDB with ARR at all, because both are from two different generations.for that matter, ARR cannot compose songs of semi-classical+light music genre like "chori chori solah singaar karungi" from film "Manoranjan"(by RDB). or if you still want to compare, compare their Debuts (ARR's Roja and RDB's Chote Nawaab), and you will see how is more path-breaking.RDB brought a genre of music and broke many barriers, while ARR is shining in existing genres.
relax..i am as much an admirer of ARR as you are(perhaps even more, for i collect even his background scores). but just felt that the comparision is unfair, only because of few lifted songs taken into consideration.

Random Walker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Aakarsh said...

ok.. i am aware that few comments cannot change your opinion..still, i wish to add my share.

you wrote->All he did was take the whole rock n'roll theme that was coming out of the west and Indianize it some.

Didnt Rahman do the same by taking the international sound coming out of the west and indianize it some.(i have tracks of late 80s which sound rahmanish,by sound).

and comparision with Elvis is pointless, i didnt talk abt Elvis at all.
You say Rahman experiments with technology. true.but why belittle the makers of technology. do u know that RDB was the first composer in india to always update himself with technological advancements abroad? also, we all talk about SOUND...the SOUND of Rahman or any composer. do u know that this concept of SOUND(feel) was first brought by RDB and he gave lot of importance to the sound? the feel of the song!

regarding RDB not going international, tell me whether there was any exposure in those days? Rahman is lucky in that way. and mind you, not just rahman, everyone. i shall ask u, do people from north india(or abroad) remember Maniratnam for Roja or Nayakan?obviously Roja, but how many know that Nayakan was one of the few films which made it to OSCARS(though not final round)? Globalisation of 1990-91-92 period had amazing effects.and mind you, i dont wish to take away credit from rahma, my only point is that , had it not happened, all his Talent(he is talented no doubt) wouldnt have got same recognition.Even, Ilaiyaraaja, one of the greatest composers of india, became the 1st Asian to compose/perform full-fledged symphony for Royal Philharmonic Orchestra,London..in 1991.(Rahman rehashed his tunes for bombaydreams and ilaiyaraja composed an original symphony..which is an achievement?and look which one is most talked about?..)

still, if you insist on going international..RDB did come out with an english album in mid80s..which was way ahead of its times.

And regarding copying, didnt Rahman copy? shall i give you instances where he copied the beats/rhythms? mind you...a copy is a copy..be it a beat or tune.
regarding tunes and classical base, RDB brought a different genre with variety of songs. dont all rahman's as genre..bcoz u r referring to sound..while i am talking about not just sound but also tunes(for eg: O Maanjhi Re). if rahman is a genre,then,howcome various other composers are able to use same genre(harris jayraj imitates rahman..pretty badly though..)..while no one could touch or re-attempt RDB's genre.

My point is, everyone has a place, quite distinct. and you cannot compare composers from two different eras altogether. in my opinion Madan Mohan was one of the greatest composers. or Naushad, the only film-composer who has maximum fans among Hindhusthani music legends. did anyone dare to compare Naushad with RDB? Evereyone has an area of expertise, and RDB brought a change in early 70s, just the way Rahman did in early 90s. if you can accept this, why not that?

If we listeners are able to judge someone in this way, then what do you say about people who worked with both, like Lata Mangeshkar & Gulzar..both being admirers of Rahman, always say that RDB was a league different from the other composers, then or even now.

for that matter,Strip out all the technology from ARR and then ask him to compose just the 1st interlude of "Is mod se Jaathe hai" (an original composition by RDB from Aandhi).if he can, then, i wud defnly say that he is equal to RDB..else, i still maintain...that he is next to RDB..but the best we have got after RDB..in hindi film music.

sorry for this painfully huge mail here.cudnt help.

Aravind said...

Hi Sush,
Just came across this info about ARR's concert in US...

vijay said...

This is reg Aakarsh's comment abt AR copying.I can assure u that music has something called "genre" and it would be mundane to call a song in a "genre" copied.Basically what AR does is experiment with different genres.Also note that each genre has a certain structure of beat and rhythm.Now a song in a particular genre may sound similar in structure to some other song in the same genre.As far as RDB is concerned he is "credited" to have lifted tunes.Its because ppl like u find it acceptable("Mere Lifting of some tunes doesnt degrade the genius of any composer. RDB might have lifted 38tunes but still, we cannot forget....") that mediocrity is celebrated with pomp in the
candyfloss crap that the chopra's,johars and khans churn out.And please..do not compare IR and AR.They are geniuses in their own rights.As for stripping out technology from AR and asking him to compose,I guess u are just another of those wannabe's craving for attention.this makes me ask whether u have ever heard AR's music at all.Don wanna waste Sushma's blogspace.There are about a hundred songs i can give u.Udhaya udhaya,Water(all songs mind u),nila kaigirathu to name a few to let u know that u've probably mistaken someone else for A.R.Rahman.Sshma pls forgive me for such long stuff.

Sushma said...

@ Vijay

Aakarsh is definitely a knowledgeable person. He does not speak out of ignorance. The post was originally meant for those people who are ignorant of ARR's music. It is very true that RD was a great MD. Believe me Vijay, Aakarsh and I have beaten this topic to death. It is his opinion that RD is better, just by maybe a notch or so, than ARR. I am not of the same view. It was not right in comparing the two as they are not peers. But as I was forced to, I chose ARR because my partially untrained ears percieve sheer beauty when they hear ARR and not when I hear RD. The main topic was about the lack of originality amongst Indian MDs and RD stands out for some lack in that respect. I agree with you wholeheartedly there. Thank you so much for your support. I really appreciate it. :)

vijay said...

Ok ok.Anyway, nice to find so many rahmaniacs around.

prasanth said...

You guys are total nuts!!!ALL COMPOSERS PLAGIARISE!!(Ilayaraja, Rehman, MSV, the whole lot!). Believe it or not, even classical music was not totally free of plagiarism or influence. Atleast then, the composers used to strive for originality.
Nowadays, film music(bollywood, hollywood, and all!) are more known for their cut, copy, pasting techniques! i am not kidding! If you r true music fans, u should listen to western classical music, chinese, rock, pop(the list goes on!!!). How the hell do our composers get their ideas??? They maintain a huge databse(nothing wrong with that). At times, they are inspired. Most of the times, the inspiration turns to plagiarism! All music is repetitive! IT IS THE VARIATIONS THAT ALWAYS COUNT!!!

Sushma said...

Do you even know what plagiarism is??? Please understand what you're talking abt before you start insulting others. Being influenced by something is not the same as plagiarism. Going by what you're saying, the current or previous set of MDs in Bolly(Tolly, Kolly)wood, should not be influenced by the latest trend in music. If that be the case, then we'd still be listening to just the same classical music. There would be no evolution, no new sounds.

**If you r true music fans, u should listen to western classical music, chinese, rock, pop(the list goes on!!!).**

Are you saying that none of these genres of music were influenced by anything? POP??? Lordy, you think true music fans ought to listen to Britney Spears and Hillary Duff? Get real! Why do you think most ppl don't give a damn abt pop? Cos they sound pretty much like each other. Are you saying that the Goo Goo Dolls and Nickelback don't have similar sounds in the least? There's a reason why the share the same genre. I won't talk abt Chinese or western classical, cos I don't know that much abt either. I gotta say one thing tho, there's a reason why I don't know that much abt them, I'm just not interested, and they don't show up on radio or tv as much as pop.

**You guys are total nuts!!!**

Yeah, I'm totally nuts about ARR's music. I thought that went without saying. But what does need saying is that you're a total dumass.

prash said...

All music is ONLY REPETITION OF THE SAME SEVEN NOTES! I am not denying that...but you make Rehman look sooooooo good! Listen to the "last Temptation of Christ" the track "Of these, hope" and Anbe Anbe (Jeans). THe beats are copied(i can't find a better word!). Yes, Rehman seems to be better than his predecessors. However, all composers are "influenced" or some of them "plagiarise".

Lordy, you think true music fans ought to listen to Britney Spears and Hillary Duff?

Do you know why it's called pop music??? because the masses listen to it and i'm sorry to say that most of them are clueless. All they need is a beat, some lyrics and nothing more! Nope, TRUE music fans should try to listen to all kinds of music: Trance, classical(Indian, western etc), new age and electronic to name a few.

And one more thing..I'm also a fan of Rehman. A fan can also pinpoint the bad songs of the composer. While a "fanatic" thinks that whatever the composer composes is "Good" "cool" "Groovy".

That's one reason why Rehman is great. Only because he listens to all genres of music. Not just classical but ALL KINDS of music! All composers do so. If many people start doing that...then the composers would be forced to being original or would be out of business very soon!!!

But what does need saying is that you're a total dumass.

Of course, i'm a dumbass because i criticised Rehman's music! Open your eyes and widen your musical horizon.I am not trying to paint Rehman as the "villain"! All the composers(Ilayaraja etc.) have blatanly plagiarised. Good day!

True Blue Rahmaniac said...

***but you make Rehman look sooooooo good! Listen to the "last Temptation of Christ" the track "Of these, hope" and Anbe Anbe (Jeans). THe beats are copied(i can't find a better word!).***

I don’t make him look anyway. His music speaks for itself. Well, I’m guessing you have no clue about commercial music. Most beats are commercially available as loops and sold to whoever wants to buy them. If any similarity exists, then it’s mostly attributed to its commercial availability, to be used by music composers. When you don’t have a clue about what is copied and what is not,I would suggest that you shut it!

***Nope, TRUE music fans should try to listen to all kinds of music: Trance, classical(Indian, western etc), new age and electronic to name a few.***

But what’s really wrong if they do listen to pop? A true music lover listens to EVERYTHING, which is why they are called music lovers. It’s obvious that ARR himself listens to pop, a lot of his music is heavily influenced my Michael Jackson….the so called king of ….you guessed it right, POP!!! But hold on just a second here, it was YOU who suggested that a true music fan ought to listen to pop. And in this latest irrelevant post, you’ve just said the opposite. Aren’t you assuming a lot when you say that the masses haven’t a clue what music is? A heck of a lot of what you termed “masses” actually is fairly well-versed in some form of classical music. Dude, get your facts right, and stop contradicting yourself.

***A fan can also pinpoint the bad songs of the composer. While a "fanatic" thinks that whatever the composer composes is "Good" "cool" "Groovy".***

The word “fan” has its roots in the word “fanatic”, it means the same thing. Implying that you’re a fan and that I’m a fanatic with all the negative and positive connotations makes no sense whatsoever. You know what they say about assumptions? I’m guessing you don’t, or you wouldn’t be making all these awesome accusations. There are several songs of ARR that I don’t think are quite what his normal standard is.

*** Of course, i'm a dumbass because i criticised Rehman's music!***

No, you’ve been labeled a dumass because of the name-calling you did in your earlier post. (Ass)umptions, (ass)umptions.

*** Open your eyes and widen your musical horizon.***

Again one more of those assumptions served up….you’re rather good at this. What can you really tell about my musical horizons? Whether I listen to trance, classical, whatever else? Given that you’re only reading one facet of what kind of music I like or appreciate?

***I am not trying to paint Rehman as the "villain"! All the composers(Ilayaraja etc.) have blatanly plagiarised.***

a) It’s spelt Rahman, not Rehman. Sign of a true “fanatic”.
b) I don’t think you get the point of this whole post. It’s just that ARR is heavily influenced by several types of music, but he does NOT blatantly PLAGIARIZE unlike other so-called famous composers.


well talking of the current generation i am a big fan of m.m.keeravani...but he too s a copycat... and i was shocked. his "agni skalana" of chatrapati(prabhas starrer) is a ditto copy of a japanese animated video... even mani sharma is a copycat...but the most shockin for me was rahman... he too copied many songs..ATM(vijay starrer), jeans, boys music(ennaku oru girlfriend and sa re ga me)... it was the most shockin for me.

again illayaraja, rajeshwar rao, s.d. burman, ghantasala r fabulous... their music r so original and classics... but even they (includin MSV and KV Mahadevan) all have songs inspired from tyagaraja keertanas , shyama shastri and mutthuswamy keertanas...